Zaynê Akyol’s first feature documentary, “Gulîstan, Land of Roses,” was selected by 80 international film festivals, earning 50 nominations and winning 12 awards, including the prestigious Doc Alliance Award given at the Locarno Film Festival. Akyol is an artist who enjoys taking photographs. Her exhibitions are widely viewed. “Rojek” is her second documentary.
“Rojek” is screening at the 2022 Hot Docs Canadian International Film Festival, which is taking place April 28-May 8. Find more information on the fest’s website.
W&H: Describe the film for us in your own words.
ZA: “Rojek” encounters members of the Islamic State, as well as their wives detained in prison camps, who are from all over the world sharing a common dream: establishing a caliphate. This film attempts to understand their fundamentalist beliefs and recounts the rise and fall ISIS (Islamic State) through their personal stories.
These intimate conversations form the basis of the documentary. They are intertwined with various sequences that show current, postwar Syrian Kurdistan. Each chapter focuses on a particular period or theme to give a unique perspective that has not been seen before.
“Rojek” offers an intimate gaze at an unknown reality, right after armed combat, testifying about pivotal moments experienced by the actors of this conflict. This film shows how the ideological war is only the beginning a new type threat.
W&H: What drew you to this story?
ZA: My family and I immigrated to Canada in 2004 from Turkey. Then, once in Canada, my parents were going to the Kurdish Community Center, which was very politicized in the ’90s. It was also where I met my babysitter Gulîstan, who was 15 years older than me. I considered her my big sis. I loved her and admired her. One day she disappeared from my life, and I learned that she had joined the Kurdish guerrillas, the Kurdistan Workers’ Party, known as the PKK. I found out that she had been killed in battle in 2000.
It is only after making my first film, “Gulîstan, Land of Roses,” that I could understand Gulîstan’s motivations by gaining the Kurdish army’s trust – whether the PKK, YPG, YPJ or SDF, all ideologically interconnected – I dove into their world. Incidentally, the filming of this documentary coincided with Daesh’s (ISIS) first strikes on the region. I was there to witness the conflict’s onset, which led to an endless war between ISIS and the Kurds.
This is the first film that allows you to dive into the world of female fighters. I share the most intimate moments of their lives in this war-torn region as guerrillas. There is never a sensationalistic image shown on the screen. We are instead given their daily lives, told in a confessional tone, and the heroes are Middle Eastern women. As they are also represented in “Rojek” not only in armies, but as authority figures, like the judge in the courtroom, police officers at the checkpoints, etc.
These films are strongly interrelated, each is the continuation of another.
This new project, “Rojek,” is the logical sequel to my first film and it revolves around post-war life, featuring a series of conversations with jihadists and their wives currently in Syrian Kurdistan. I meet with them to learn about their lives, their motivations, and the ISIS mechanisms. I have a dialogue with those involved in the creation and maintenance of the Islamic State. The film uses prison cells as a backdrop and focuses on the lives of those who came from all walks of the globe to create a society based upon an ultra-fundamentalist understanding of Islam.
The film’s narrative structure revolves around filmed interviews where these men and women retrace chronologically the beginning, the glory days, and the end of ISIS, as they lived it from the inside. We are treated to their personal stories about their enrollment, their childhood, family, religious beliefs, and their roles within ISIS.
I went beyond the borders I couldn’t cross with my first film. It was extremely difficult to hear this point of view, to analyze and try to understand it. This is because it is completely opposite to my values, and also because most women in my previous film were killed fighting ISIS.
It was an extremely emotional film to make. That is why I went to meet with the Other, the enemy of the world, in order to try and understand him. Of course, such a tête-à-tête would never have been possible were it not for the pretext of filmmaking.
It has allowed me access that I would not have otherwise. It is not an act one should do without good reason. Filmmaking opens doors. It allows you to capture historic events, as well as to be a priveledge witness of the world, and then to present it back to you in a personal way. This type of film requires patience and a lot of work. However, it is very rewarding. It helped me to grow as a person, taught me a lot and forced me to confront my beliefs.
When filming “Rojek,” I spent four months in Syrian Kurdistan, visited six prisons, and interviewed 50 people, 30 of whom were jihadists and 20 jihadists’ wives. All of these people were arrested after the fall of the Islamic State. Citizens from all over the world joined this extremist organization, so it’s not just a regional problem anymore.
The preferential access I have obtained — a clearance shared only by Secret Services — along with the [opportunity]The film is enhanced by the fact that I was able to witness some of their trials. Coming out of a debut film about Middle Eastern female fighters in a time of war, I dove into this portrait of Syrian Kurdistan in the aftermath of its most devastating events, which pits progressive points of view (the Syrian Democratic Forces’) against extremist ones (the ISIS prisoners’).
As you can see, “Rojek” is a very ambitious project that required years of preparation and that had many challenges along the way: access and permissions, security, translations, unofficial borders passing, war zones, etc. And that’s just to name a few.
“Rojek” is the realization of all my thoughts on the subject accumulated over the ten years of going back and forth to Iraqi Kurdistan and Syrian Kurdistan. It was a long journey that allowed me to gain access to ISIS jihadist prisoners. It was possible thanks to ten years of hard work. Indeed, my previous film, “Gulîstan, Land of Roses,” exposes the life of the guerrillas who fought against the Islamic State. It was therefore about “the war,” whereas “Rojek” takes place more in the “post-war period,” questioning the actors who triggered, participated in, and maintained this chaos. This new film is in a sense the continuation of the first film. It turns the camera to the other side and focuses on the jihadists.
These two films offer an intimate look into an unknown reality. They are at different stages in armed combat but both document pivotal moments that will impact the rest of the world.
W&H: What do you want people to think about after they watch the film?
ZA: By meeting these people, “Rojek” helps us understand the basis on which these extremists commit such acts. We can no longer see them as dangerous lunatics but as indoctrinated people when we try to understand their logic. As with any indoctrination system, the only way we can imagine solutions is to know what it is.
What is ISIS’ ideology? Who are its members? What are their personal stories? Why do they fight and, more importantly, why do they consider everyone else “miscreants” who deserve to die? These are the topics we address in this film, while breaking down the structure of ISIS — how it works, the different positions, its hierarchy, its organization, etc. — as well as the key events of this war as seen by those who lived it from the inside.
These conversations mainly answer these personal questions and necessary explanations about ISIS. We attempt to understand the Other, and offer rare dialogue with the most dangerous terrorists from the past decade and what is left of them.
I believe that with “Rojek,” a channel of communication is created, one that would otherwise be impossible between these people and the viewer. Hearing the words of jihadists in interviews helps us understand the magnitude of the problem, and it’s also a way to move forward and think about lasting solutions that will impact future generations.
Although news about ISIS is a part of our daily lives, many people still have difficulty understanding its implications. “Rojek” could help clarify some of the misunderstandings and initiate a dialogue. It is possible to move forward in society even though it is not easy.
W&H: What was the biggest challenge in making the film?
ZA: Everything in making this film was a challenge from A to Z. I am glad I didn’t know it when I started because I probably wouldn’t have continued. From finding the right producers and team for the project; to going to a war zone alone without any assistance; to having accesses and permissions to film in jails; to coming back home with the rushes; to finding the right story to tell in the editing room, etc. I could go on and on about it. Making a film about Islamic State members is not something you can do easily. Because not only did I have the challenges of making a film, which are already a lot, but I also had the challenges that come with the subject of the film.
Making films is not easy for me because I have to satisfy myself. I have a compulsion to constantly push my own limits and ideas, which makes it hard for me to enjoy the process.
W&H: How did you get your film funded? Let us know how you got the film produced.
ZA: The film was produced by Metafilms, Audrey-Ann Dupuis Pierre, Sylvain Cobeil, and me. We all share a passion for the production of auteur movies.
We received financial support mainly from Canadian institutions, namely Telefilm Canada, SODEC, Conseil des arts et des lettres du Québec (CALQ), Hot Docs Ted Rogers Fund, ACIC (from National Film Board of Canada), and Post-moderne. We have also received international funding from the Gucci Tribeca Documentary Fund and Cinereach in the United States, as well as from the Région Île-de-France Film Fund.
W&H: What inspired you to become a filmmaker?
ZA: It was an accident that I never wanted to be a Director. I was a good student of science and math in high school. In CEGEP, a sort of pre-university in Quebec right after high school, I wanted to try something totally different, and I thought, “Why not filmmaking for a semester?” I got hooked and haven’t stopped since.
W&H: What’s the best and worst advice you’ve received?
ZA Best Advice: Make a list of films you’d like to see.
My mind doesn’t focus on negativity, so I can’t remember any bad advice.
W&H: What advice do you have for other women directors?
ZA: I would recommend making films that are important to yourself, approaching people who are difficult to approach, and building a trusting team. Finally, I believe that hard work is what gets you there — talent is just a plus. All these are essential to making films.
W&H: Name your favorite woman-directed film and why.
ZA: I recently met Shirin Neshat, a multidisciplinary artist. She is not only a talented photographer but also a skilled director. I was invited by her to have a creative conversation at the Museum of Contemporary Art (MOCA), Toronto. Her unique approach, authenticity, and background fascinated me. I was introduced by an impressive woman who communicates her vision of the world without compromising who and what she is.
W&H: How are you adjusting to life during the COVID-19 pandemic? Is it possible to keep your creativity alive?
ZA: A few months after we finished the filming of “Rojek” and came back to Montreal, the pandemic hit the world. We were lucky that we started post production during that time, and it was completed just a few weeks later. This last phase of the film was the longest, it took exactly two years because of the amount of material and the richness of the subject, if I can say so.
W&H: The film industry has a long history of underrepresenting people of color onscreen and behind the scenes and reinforcing — and creating — negative stereotypes. What actions do you think need to be taken to make Hollywood and/or the doc world more inclusive?
ZA: This is a serious issue that goes beyond focusing on inclusion. I am a woman from an immigrant family and have been subject to racism both at school and in my workplace. I will always remember how my classmates told me that I was doing well in university and that I was being given an example by my teachers. However, in reality, I had no talent. This is what we must address first: ignorance, even among those who appear to have been educated.
I was the only immigrant among 30 students. This means that there are fewer professionals in the movie industry. One simple solution is to demand that the percentage of visible minorities in society is the same in the arts. However, the root cause of the problem is deeper and needs to be addressed. These may take time so the easiest thing to do is to make systemic changes until we achieve equality.
Source: Women And Hollywood