Alex Cooper Is Coming for Joe Rogan’s Spot

Not everyone knows who Alex Cooper is, but she’s trying hard to change that. The 27-year-old host and producer of the “Call Her Daddy” podcast, Cooper has quickly become one of the country’s most popular podcasters, developing a following of millions of loyal listeners since debuting her raunchy sex-and-dating show on the aggressively laddish Barstool Sports site in 2018. Cooper leveraged her success on Barstool to secure a deal worth more than $60million to bring the show to Spotify. The shift in platform was accompanied a shift of content. When “Call Her Daddy” started, Cooper and her former co-host, Sofia Franklyn, drew attention for their swaggering sexual explicitness. Franklyn, for some obscure reasons, ceased hosting the show in 2020. But in its current iteration, “Call Her Daddy” has broadened beyond blue talk to include Cooper’s probing interviews with clinical psychologists, psychotherapists and social media stars about topics like mental health, codependency and the ills of online life. (That’s not to say the show isn’t still raunchy. It is. “It frustrates me when people try to pigeonhole me like, Oh, it’s just that sex show,” Cooper says. “I feel that sometimes people don’t want to acknowledge the show’s success: It must have been because of her looks or the salacious content. No. It continues to be one of the biggest shows in the world, and it’s not because I stumbled upon something.”

Your core audience is women aged 18-33. What do you have? You know how to grab their attention? When I look at creators, I can clearly see them thinking, “I need to do that.” ThisEvery week, because ThisThis is what people are looking for. Every week, my episodes are different. I love the unpredictable. After I went to Spotify, it took my listeners a minute to get a hold on, like: We didn’t get a sex tip this week. What’s going on? If you keep doing the same thing, it can almost become like a sitcom, where you think, I can miss today’s episode. I’m trying to make “Call Her Daddy” like a friggin’ HBO show, where you’re like, I cannot miss this week because I don’t know what’s about to go down. I embrace the awkward moments in some interviews. People love to feel uncomfortable. Listeners ThinkThey like to feel comfortable. No. People love to feel a little bit on edge.

What’s a question I could ask you now that would create one of those uncomfortable moments? Oh! I don’t know if something could make me uncomfortable. I’m just going to be myself. I hope you like me. If not, that’s life.

The version of “Call Her Daddy” that you were doing for Barstool Sports was a lot more sexually provocative than what you’re doing at Spotify. Did you decide that the raunchier stuff was too much? Yes. Although the shift had already occurred mentally while I was at Barstool it was now that the brand was firmly established. When you heard “Call Her Daddy,” you immediately were thinking of the crazy, raw, salacious comedy podcast. In my last year at Barstool I had begun to change the show. I took over the show solo. I started to be like: We’re in a pandemic. I’m not having much sexual interaction. What is the other thing going on in your life? That’s when I started to talk more about mental health. Then when I went to Spotify — I’m going to be honest with you, I did not think that the show was going to take the trajectory of having these intense interviews. Amanda Knox was the interviewee. Since I’ve shifted from just relationship-dating conversation, my listenership has never been higher.

Barstool Sports is a great choice for many people. synonymous with misogynyHave your views about the brand changed over time? As much as it’s the bro culture, they never told me what to do with the show. Erika Nardini, C.E.O., was my direct reporting partner while I was there. The C.F.O. A woman was my editor at the C.F.O. My editor was a female. This was my experience at Barstool. Barstool is a great place to work. However, they gave me my I.P. back. Barstool’s history has seen no one leave the I.P. I was the first to do it. So I can’t have any complaints. But I get it. People want me too [expletive]It.

I’m not asking you to [expletive]It. That is what I know. But the best part was how many men by the end were terrified of “Call Her Daddy” at that office. We almost ran. [expletive]. So, while I had a positive experience, it was the right time to leave to allow me to grow the show and push it in the direction that I felt was needed.

The “about” section on the “Call Her Daddy” Spotify page says the podcast is “putting a modern twist on feminism” and “spitting in the face of misogyny.” How is it doing that?First, the definition of feminist has changed. As time has progressed, as a feminist, I have tried to elevate past just “women deserve equal rights as men.” If we’re going by the definition of feminism as equality — politically, socially, economically — for all sexes, then “Call Her Daddy” stands for feminism. But while I identify as a female, through the show I’ve learned that we probably need to stop focusing on the two sexes and expand it to equality of all human beings. Absolutely I’m a feminist. I support women. I want everyone to succeed. We need to extend that concept to all people, as there are many communities that aren’t being given the same chance. So yes, feminism, but let’s broaden that conversation past just women.

So is feminism too restricting?Yes, I believe so. I think many people are beginning to feel the same way. Gender is fluid and everyone should embrace that evolution. I don’t have all the answers. I am still learning. Hopefully the Daddy Gang can learn through me — pronouns and how to be respectful and listening instead of just trying to assume.

This is kinda left-field but you played Division I soccer right? Yes.

Did the culture of sport influence your view on the podcast? I am competitive. My dad played Division I hockey at Wisconsin. My mom was an equestrian. Both of my siblings were active in sports. I strive to be the best that I can. But when I got to college, it was a different level of competition that I didn’t quite understand, and it pushed me to a level that I was so grateful for. I’ll talk about it one day: I had a traumatic experience happen in college with regard to soccer. It made me stronger. Learning the tools of competition, resilience, and having to have confidence in oneself. Although it was hard in the moment, that does translate to who I am today as the host of “Call Her Daddy.”

Can you tell me about your traumatic experience? I would prefer not to just because I’m not personally healed. I was able get a full ride, and my senior years were a blast. didn’t I was able to keep my full scholarship, but I played. This can be a sign of what went wrong. I got to keep my full scholarship but didn’t play because of a situation with the coach.

Did you exhibit inappropriate behavior? Yeah. The dean of students, sports, and other academics gathered and asked, “What do you want?” Because there was inappropriate — yeah. I’m going to tell the story one day. I just need to find the right medium. I must be able to feel fully healed.

You suggested that there were ways in which that experience helped plant the seed for “Call Her Daddy.” How so? I got something I worked my entire life for stripped away because someone in a position of power couldn’t control themself. And I did nothing wrong. So what I took was the motivation of feeling like no one will ever again take something away from me just because they’re title-wise above me. That was what ignited something within me. I felt, you know what, I’m going to exude the confidence that I know I have in myself, and this is not going to derail my goals. If anything it’s going to propel me to be like “eff you” and watch me now succeed. I was trying to embody that in “Call Her Daddy”: Be confident in yourself, and you don’t need to be in a position where you feel uncomfortable.

You’re talking about empowerment. The show has certainly changed since its early days, but there’s still a fair bit of focus on social media influencers and gossip. Could these subjects, which have a lot do with status, comparison and affluence feed disempowering thinking? There are going to be episodes where maybe someone was like, That wasn’t very empowering, and a model talking about her issues, I can’t relate. But if people look at “Call Her Daddy” and are like, That’s not very empowering, then you’re probably not listening or watching the show as of recently. What I can say is every single episode, I believe there’s something in it for someone. It may not be ingestible for everyone, but that’s also life. I’m going to keep forging forward and making great content. I truly believe what I’m doing is changing the podcast industry.

How? As a consumer, I don’t listen to podcasts. I only listen to what I have written. But what I’ve found is that we as the younger generation — millennial, Gen Z — have a very short attention span. I don’t believe any show has ever been edited like “Call Her Daddy.” In the early days, I wouldn’t even allow there to be an “um.” I would not allow there to be a moment that was not saturated. You’re at the edge of your seat the entire time. In order for “Call Her Daddy” to be consumable to the younger generation, it needs to be quick and snappy. It’s in your face. It’s clickbait-y. It’s clickbait-y. But, there must be enough substance underneath to keep a loyal audience. Through all the wild, salacious moments there were also teachable moments. Now, with Spotify, I will launch more vlog podcasts. I’m using the video element and tacking it on to the audio element. It’s 10 times more entertaining and stimulating.

You’re describing a televised talk show, right? Essentially, yes. It’s 10 times more work. An audio podcast takes me two and a quarter days to edit and perfect. Editing video podcasts takes me five days. But I’ll do it for my audience because they love it. As a consumer, I want to listen to podcasts. Also, I don’t need to be sitting in the room the whole time. Let’s podcast from the car! Let’s go to the grocery store and bring people along on the experience! Let me help you visualise it by very literally showing you. I’m trying to conceptualize where is “Call Her Daddy” and Alex Cooper going? Because I want to be the best at what you do, I am aware of where-to next. I’m very competitive.

Who do you consider your competition? Myself.

You should always keep an eye on someone. OK, yeah. Joe Rogan is obviously the person above me. I’m usually second to him. But I don’t feel competitive with Joe Rogan because our content is so different. My show is the most watched in the world. There is no other category that is as big as mine. This is why I can confidently and not arrogantly say that I am my own competitor. There is nothing worse than having someone to catch-up to. I have to find my way to motivate myself. But that’s not ever been my problem because I live in a bubble. I cannot not work. My competitiveness is like this: I want to be No. The No. 1 show in all of the world. I want to break every record.

Just to go back to the show’s content: I know that the relationship-advice side of what you do is really important to your fans. What are you giving them that they weren’t getting before? I’ve been through so much and am not embarrassed to say I’ve been cheated on, I’ve been screwed over. At any caliber of dating, you’re going to experience those things. I want people to feel more empowered to say, OK, so you were cheated on. This says more about the person than you. People are drawn to people who are outspoken. I think I have a gift for dating. Maybe my IQ isn’t as high as some people, but my EQ is up there. I feel confident in my interactions with humans.

Do you ever wish to project yourself into the world in the same way that you do now? I was bullied as a child and I wanted to find an outlet. My escape was going to my basement and making a music video. I found it a lot of comfort to be able express myself and not feel judged. Creating content has always been a form of self-expression that has made me feel seen, that made me feel I am worthy and have something to show that I’m good at.

Do you think bullying affected your outlook on popularity, physical attractiveness, and status? I wonder if the feeling of being excluded from these things might have distorted their meaning. Yes. You get it. Those are the things that have stayed with me. The dynamic of knowing I was a good kid, got a great personality, so why is it all about my looks that I’m getting bullied for? This made me want to understand. Would people like me then? Through therapy I’ve recognized that’s not healthy. There’s a part of me that now values how I’ve taken that experience and turned it into something positive. These undertones of rooting in the underdog and not taking advantage of them are what you will see if you look at my childhood. [expletive]And trying to empower myself — you can feel them in my show. That’s when other women are like, I want to be like that, too. I’ve got a lot of people that are feeling empowered from this and find the courage to do things because of me and vice versa.

Is there another way that being bullied can still influence what you do? When I got my braces off, got on Accutane, slapped some hair dye on and I started playing soccer and growing muscle — I was the same human inside, and yet all of a sudden people started treating me differently because I was a hot chick. I felt like, Wow, that’s all it took? I still feel like the awkward middle school girl. For a while I had to fake confidence and convince myself I was confident when I wasn’t. Knowing I’ve gone through that in my life, I can teach other women to fake it till you make it. Eventually one day you’re going to wake up and be like, I do actually feel confident because I’ve been faking for so freaking long, so let’s go!

This interview was compiled from two conversations.

David Marchese works as a staff writer in Talk and as a columnist for the magazine. Recently, he interviewed Neal Stephenson on portraying a utopian world, Laurie Santos about happiness, and Christopher Walken regarding acting.